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Thread: Approval for operator's own checklists?

  1. #11
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    Default Re: Approval for operator's own checklists?

    EGR should be part of your procedures for 145. So for specific type checklist have it referred to in the procedure . Would suggest it is on a revision cycle the same as the AMM. Not hard for someone to run through procedure twice a year to verify any changes and amend as necessary. I know in reality this is very difficult as have had this battle for years with QA. The pat answer is use AMM. The AMM for ground runs is not in a format useable for the task. Really the same as a flight manual , which is why crews have checklists ! Good luck ! if you get no joy submit HF report !

  2. #12
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    Default Re: Approval for operator's own checklists?

    Quote Originally Posted by Antonio View Post
    Folks, the only person who seems to have understood the original question [or at least remained focused on the original thread] is Mono. The original question was whether an operator who is also a Part 145 MRO can produce its own documentation for maintenance and then a specific reference to an engine ground run check list. Why should an MRO actually produce their own manuals for maintenance? The cost of verifying and getting them approved by the NAA is very high. I can understand this requirement for an operator initiated modification but why should anyone even bother to design a maintenance procedure if it's already in the AMM? An EGR check list which is a copy / paste of the AMM is handy to have but as Mono rightly said, this would be a reference only or else revise it every 3 months .....
    Antonio,

    Using an AMM to perform an EGR is an extremely time consuming and often over complex way to do it. By the time you have gone and pulled up every sub procedure and/or safety requirement, you either end up in a circle chasing hyperlink to hyperlink or you've wasted a lot of time, going over unrelated information. Its a HF nightmare and as we know in the real world, it doesn't happen all the time.

    I've worked in a couple of 145 and FAR org's that use and approve the use of such checklists. These, along with the training organisation (that Mono speaks of) must satisfy their relevant NAA's. The operators QA dept revising the procedure as and when its required surely isn't an issue either?

    Of course, we are also looking at sending queries/amendments to the AMM procedures to the manufacturer to help with this.

  3. #13
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    Cool Re: Approval for operator's own checklists?

    Since joining the airline almost 20 years ago, from day 1 we have had an EGR guide, it says in the front this manual complies with HKAR Section A, chapter A5-3. I don't know if that crosses over in EASA land, bearing in mind HKAR 145/147/66 etc are/were set up by the CAA so I would imagine it won't be far off the mark.

    It also states This document does not contain any detailed powerplant tests. Detailed test requirements must be determined from the ENGINE TEST TABLE then extracted from the Maintenance Manual. The required tests should be printed from the MM and taken to the aircraft with this handbook.

    It basically extrapolates basic stuff from the MM, positioning of a/c, chocks, etc etc. It has checklist for starting, motoring etc etc, it also has emergency checklists, that must be actioned from memory, i.e. a fire. We are tested on this in a simulator every couple of years.

    It is a fully approved and controlled document. It is compiled by flt ops and tech training school and approved by QA.

  4. #14
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    Default Re: Approval for operator's own checklists?

    Just use the flight crew checklists......




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  5. #15
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Approval for operator's own checklists?

    Quote Originally Posted by spannersatcx View Post
    Since joining the airline almost 20 years ago, from day 1 we have had an EGR guide, it says in the front this manual complies with HKAR Section A, chapter A5-3. I don't know if that crosses over in EASA land, bearing in mind HKAR 145/147/66 etc are/were set up by the CAA so I would imagine it won't be far off the mark.

    It also states This document does not contain any detailed powerplant tests. Detailed test requirements must be determined from the ENGINE TEST TABLE then extracted from the Maintenance Manual. The required tests should be printed from the MM and taken to the aircraft with this handbook.

    It basically extrapolates basic stuff from the MM, positioning of a/c, chocks, etc etc. It has checklist for starting, motoring etc etc, it also has emergency checklists, that must be actioned from memory, i.e. a fire. We are tested on this in a simulator every couple of years.

    It is a fully approved and controlled document. It is compiled by flt ops and tech training school and approved by QA.
    Antonio,

    Using an AMM to perform an EGR is an extremely time consuming and often over complex way to do it. By the time you have gone and pulled up every sub procedure and/or safety requirement, you either end up in a circle chasing hyperlink to hyperlink or you've wasted a lot of time, going over unrelated information. Its a HF nightmare and as we know in the real world, it doesn't happen all the time.

    I've worked in a couple of 145 and FAR org's that use and approve the use of such checklists. These, along with the training organisation (that Mono speaks of) must satisfy their relevant NAA's. The operators QA dept revising the procedure as and when its required surely isn't an issue either?

    Of course, we are also looking at sending queries/amendments to the AMM procedures to the manufacturer to help with this.
    Fair comment guys ..... Agreed.
    God created all men bald:
    The ugly ones he covered with hair.

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