Nhs

[Jarwot]

Hope not as bad as you suggest. Got to in between first and third world service. One sad case does not reduce us to third world status. A few years back a neighbour died in his garden. There is no doubt had a medic got to him quickly, he had a good chance of surviving. But his location is, was really remote countryside. There can never be complete cover for every incident.

[Tinsley Green]

ye right, Clacton out in the sticks. see Andrew Marr this morning? Stroke victim, ambulance turned up within hour, waited over 4 hours in ambulance at hospital. As he said,"had that happened to me I would be dead now".
Also part of the discussions this morning was that politicians recognize paying more for the NHS although required is political suicide. We need to be less selfish and pay more, as do almost everyone else in europe.

[Black Box Barney]

Just thought I'd add my tuppence worth......

Scandinavia.....

I lived and worked in Norway for around 9 years, paying fully into the Norwegian system, hence, entitled to everything a local was....... and I can tell you, medical assistance for the vast majority is far from free, or even cheap for that matter.

A visit to the GP, will cost you a minimum of £24, just for a consultation, a prescription starts at £18 plus the high cost of the medicines, usually they are more than double the cost of the UK. This is paid by everyone, unless you are in one of the groups that get it for free (up to 16, or over 67 years old). There is no way to claim this money back, but after you have spent £240 on consultations in one year, you can get a "free" card for the remainder of the year.
Inpatient treatment is free to a lot of people, but not everyone, it depends on your income level, if you earn more than about £4000 a month (a relatively low wage by Norwegian standards), you pay, incrementally depending on your total income the previous year.
Outpatient treatment at the Norwegian equivalent of the A&E, is payable at the same rates as at the GP.

Dental treatment costs about 5 times what it is in the UK, and one thing I really hated about it was that we had to pay over £1500 for braces for my 12 year old daughter, as they class them as cosmetic.
I was quoted £3800 for an implant, and that was from a relatively cheap dentist, I was told it could be as high as £7000 if I went to one of the "posher" ones, there are NO health service dentists.
I eventually got the job done while I was working in Germany, but as a 4 tooth bridge with three implants for €1200. Most Norwegian "dental tourists" go to Hungary or Poland, and still save money after flights and hotels.

[Jarwot]

I do not think throwing more money at the NHS will help. This would really state the NHS is doing a great job when in reality it is a huge system poorly run. No doubt there are areas with a first class cost effective service but that is not the norm. A friend was early retired due to poor health on a very good pension. A year later has been taken back on a consultant basis. Still getting pension plus earning more then originally paid. The NHS structure is multi layered with quango thrusts, advisory bodies and rife with part timers It needs a total overhaul and shut down poor work practices. No doubt a nightmare to achieve

[Tinsley Green]

just watched sky news. they had an nhs expert on. His solution, WE NEED MORE MONEY. We need to become more efficient too, he admitted, but the basic issue was expecting too much and successive governments not being prepared to pay for it. The nhs is chronically underfunded.

There is a great saying: you can lead a horse to water but you can't force it to drink.
Lets hope they are there for you Jarwot when you really need them.

[Jarwot]

I have had nothing but fantastic support from the NHS. I'm lucky to live where I do, but realise when home our isolated area is not an easy place to cover in an emergency. Hope not in the situation to test the system! Still not sure the division of funds to really small medical practices was the way to go. Doctors are doctors and not accountants. The NHS is such a huge organization it does require breaking down into manageable parts. But budget control does seem not to apply, every hospital around here reports budget deficits. But a closer look highlights huge costs for agency staff. A recruitment for nurses from a third world country was a shambles. Having brought them in and housed it was then found all but one of the group had either TB or Aids, which meant they had to be supported and never employed as nurses. Recently media reports of huge differences in what is paid for medical equipment surely points to major accounting problems.

[Tinsley Green]

Germany more than double the budget the nhs has
france over 30% more than the nhs has

there comes a point when you have to accept the nhs needs more money and you have to pay more to become world class again. Its not about the treatment you receive, that is the same everywhere, its whether you will get the treatment in time.

https://news.sky.com/video/ae-doc-pa...tdesk-11199307

perhaps jarwot is better informed than the doctors in the system. I very much doubt it though because the facts are overwhelming.

[Jarwot]

Of course doctors want more money its the norm with most professions. No doubt there are some doctors in higher positions which give them an insight into the workings of the larger system. How many GP's will understand the purchasing policy of their local authority, basically they do not need to know and in most cases do not really care its outside of their remit. Like us, a doctor can only relate to what is experienced during their working day. It will take a individual of huge talent to understand the complex NHS system and make decisions bypassing outdated practices to get hold of the whole structure. An impossible task when systems have been allowed to generate such a complex organization.

[Tinsley Green]

again this thread highlights why politicians have an impossible job.
according to jarwot he knows better than France and Germany and Scandinavia who spend significantly more but don't have winter issues in their systems, don't have people dying because an ambulance didn't arrive.
stinks of an old empire opinion that the uk does everything better.

jarwot also claimed to have social leanings but here he wants to avoid paying more to help the "undeserving" as he put it. hypocrite.

[Jarwot]

Bloody hell Tinsley no punches pulled. Where to start-- always thought that as a nation we should not ignore the needy. But unfortunately there are those that take the piss (You may not agree!) Don't think I have ever stated I would avoid spending more on health as an individual. When living overseas we had to have fairly expensive insurance. In the UK we pay into a national pot, so no doubt for some this is a cheap way for health cover. If we all have to pay more then surely we can hope the organization we support is run efficiently. There are plenty of causes within the UK which need more money. We need to look after children brought up in state orphanages who once they reach 18 are on their own, until recently that was at 16. A big percentage of kids sleeping rough come form state run homes.