Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 18

Thread: do we 'engineer' or do we follow procedures?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    oop north
    Posts
    570

    Default do we 'engineer' or do we follow procedures?

    Genuine question. I recently met up with a good mate of mine who was working for an operator in the Biz-Jet sector. During the course of our conversation he mentioned that he had left his employment because of the lack of access to 'approved data' documentation. He mentioned that he was involved with installing a large wiring modification which had errors on it (cores missing, which were known) so rather than up-issue a new drawing with the cores included the guys just followed the instructions and also included the (unauthorised) extra wiring cores and loomed them in also. He mentioned the errors to the design dept and was met with 'yeah we know about it but just whack the cores in and will sort out the new drawings later' . He had a fairly robust discussion with the Eng mgr and QM who seemed to believe the this LAE was wrong and that by asking for the approved data he was being obstructive.
    I thought this kind of attitude went out with the arc', does it exist elsewhere in aviation or is this a localised matter? My own experience has always been to follow procedures for several reasons
    a) no omissions of the part of the certifying staff
    b) If mistakes are made then the certifier can be exposed to all sorts of repercussions

    Am I being naive or are they as gash as fook ?

    I recall a accident several years ago (may be Thompson) which involved an incorrect NAV software load (EGPWS iirc). Were the LAE & Accountable Manager imprisoned for negligence? I can't find the accident report do you guys remember this or is it T-Bar BS
    I don't have a bucket list, but my fuc l<et list is a mile long

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    4,071

    Default Re: do we 'engineer' or do we follow procedures?

    Blxxdy hell Really worrying Maybe the guy should have taken his findings to the CAA.
    The Higher the Fewer

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Suki yaki
    Posts
    9,545

    Default Re: do we 'engineer' or do we follow procedures?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarwot View Post
    Blxxdy hell Really worrying Maybe the guy should have taken his findings to the CAA.
    Agreed. CHIRP the whole lot. Looks like the operator was installing an in-house mod. If they have a design approval to produce mods, they should complete the whole of the stages including the correct drawings, part numbers and instructions for fitment and testing. It would be equally bad, if not worse, if the mod was OEM created. No matter which, but the QAM who fails to stand up for Quality in such cases is doing a disservice to the industry
    I love this job

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    oop north
    Posts
    570

    Default Re: do we 'engineer' or do we follow procedures?

    [QUOTE=Jarwot;156489]Blxxdy hell Really worrying Maybe the guy should have taken his findings to the CAA.

    He may do, but I think he is of the mind to walk off into the sunset

    Quote Originally Posted by No Smoking View Post
    Agreed. CHIRP the whole lot. Looks like the operator was installing an in-house mod. If they have a design approval to produce mods, they should complete the whole of the stages including the correct drawings, part numbers and instructions for fitment and testing. It would be equally bad, if not worse, if the mod was OEM created. No matter which, but the QAM who fails to stand up for Quality in such cases is doing a disservice to the industry
    Thanks gents, yes this is what I had believed too. The operator does have 'Pt 21 design approval' and they had produced their own drawings. It is not unreasonable to expect some errors on the drawing if it is a first issue, but once those errors were identified the omissions should be corrected and then everyone can move on legally. As far as I know this mod was installing some Nav equipt and due to the missing cores certain capabilities did nt work hence the rework was needed. He mentioned that during this 'robust chat' that occurred with the QM and Eng Mgr they believed that because their fleet was rather old - The QM stated they had a 'war-bird' attitude to these sort of matters. When my mate said this I thought it was complete bollox and just a convenient excuse;

    Is the aircraft crash I mentioned T-Bar BS or did it happen?? I have heard it from more than one source but I can't find any report online - am I going senile
    I don't have a bucket list, but my fuc l<et list is a mile long

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Away from Scotland
    Posts
    2,396

    Default Re: do we 'engineer' or do we follow procedures?

    Seen PART 145 minor mods that have been totally bollox. My opinion is that if the mod has the slighlist hole in it, it is not embodied. The management can walk until it is sorted. Who is certifying?
    Alonso Hater

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    oop north
    Posts
    570

    Default Re: do we 'engineer' or do we follow procedures?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alber Ratman View Post
    Seen PART 145 minor mods that have been totally bollox. My opinion is that if the mod has the slighlist hole in it, it is not embodied. The management can walk until it is sorted. Who is certifying?
    The Maintenance Manager was doing the CRS. My mate did the installation, found the errors during the functionals (he's not typed on that aircraft). A chat with the Maintenance Mgr, discovered the reasons why certain functions were nt working properly, the Maintenance Mgr knew about the errors in the drawing but either had forgotten or had nt bothered to let the Design Dept know about the omissions.
    I don't have a bucket list, but my fuc l<et list is a mile long

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Suki yaki
    Posts
    9,545

    Default Re: do we 'engineer' or do we follow procedures?

    As far as I know this mod was installing some Nav equipt and due to the missing cores certain capabilities did nt work hence the rework was needed.
    ...the Maintenance Mgr knew about the errors in the drawing but either had forgotten or had nt bothered to let the Design Dept know about the omissions.
    The Maintenance Manager is exhibiting some complacency there. Casually introducing a field fix separate from the Design Office isn't going to help the organisation. The shiney metals we maintain have a way of carrying on long after we have moved on. Documented evidence recorded on drawings and Maintenance Manuals are the best legacy to guide those who have to maintain the aircraft and its systems long after our time.
    I love this job

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Away from Scotland
    Posts
    2,396

    Default Re: do we 'engineer' or do we follow procedures?

    The manager is the certifier? Well nothing stoping you putting a MSR in against the proceedure to your compliance manager. And watch whom wins that arguement.
    Alonso Hater

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    A box in a shop doorway
    Posts
    4,713

    Default Re: do we 'engineer' or do we follow procedures?

    painting outside the lines is frowned upon. Do so at your own peril.
    Eat more pies....M0NCL


  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Away from Scotland
    Posts
    2,396

    Default Re: do we 'engineer' or do we follow procedures?

    White Lines.. Don't do it!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsTJaP2tC0A
    Alonso Hater

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Follow LRTT on facebook
    By LRTT in forum Resource Group
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: June 28th, 2013, 13:42
  2. Air France A330-200 Crash: Follow Up
    By No Smoking in forum Airbus
    Replies: 117
    Last Post: September 20th, 2012, 12:26
  3. Follow on from, 'what do Rotary Engineers want'
    By gosprat1 in forum Helicopters Only
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: June 1st, 2008, 14:15
  4. Airside pass procedures
    By Rif in forum UK
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: March 23rd, 2008, 12:20
  5. DRINKING PROCEDURES
    By DAS SCHISSE MAGNEET in forum British Airways
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: December 31st, 2003, 09:36

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •