Airbus.

[Headphones.]

I've got the chance of doing an "LMA" Airbus course later in the year. As i currently work B747/B777 ( i'm an "A" licence holder) and have no experience of working the a/c, my "FSM" said i would either go round to victor tech or go over to T1 shorthaul to get my "per" filled in prior to me getting the Airbus qualification. My understanding from talking to my "FSM" is that it would be a temporary swop, so if i went to T1 there would be no night shift involved as T4 doesn't have a night shift. My first choice would be T4 so what are the start and finish times, as i understand its a four on four off staggered days in victor tech. Same question again for the two days that the T1 lads work on their four on four off.
Secondly have any of the Airbus people had a course on the B747 or B777 and if so would they be happy for a temporary swop.

[C Chime]

Victor Tech work a 4 on, 4 off pattern, working four earlies then four lates and so on.

Early shift is 0500-1630.
Late shift is 1130-2300.

Not a bad shift when you get used to the early starts.

[Hugh Jampton]

Early shift is 0500-1630.
Late shift is 1130-2300.

So, all that cr@p we were told about ALL 12 hr shifts will have a standard start/finish time 0630-1830 is indeed, bow-larks!!

Another pack of lies from Dimwit Reed.

[Mr Grumpy]

The new LGW hangar 12 hour shifts aren't 0630 start anymore either but 0645. Again the ones changing shifts the most can't even keep their start time because others that aren't changing shift object.

[dbsweeney]

So, all that cr@p we were told about ALL 12 hr shifts will have a standard start/finish time 0630-1830 is indeed, bow-larks!!

The new LGW hangar 12 hour shifts aren't 0630 start anymore either but 0645. Again the ones changing shifts the most can't even keep their start time because others that aren't changing shift object.

There's a large difference between laid down shift times and BA's murky little world of local agreements, none of which appear to have been voted in by the actual "locals" who have to work the shift in question.

[Dick Tracy]

DBS

Nothing wrong with local agreements if all the guys locally like doing the pattern, T5 has a 4 on 4 off pattern just agreed with the TU thats not in the book, wont be anyone posted to it but latest theory is it will be over - subscribed.

Headphones.

What you suggesting isnt a bad idea but i think people have to stick with their own patterns or take each others, sadly there are not many takers for 7s, go and ask round Victor, see what the FSM says.

[Hugh Jampton]

We had a perfectly good local agreement. It fit the work load and everyone liked it. Dimwit Reed came along and told us we had to change to standardised start times as Al Mac wanted it that way!!!

More lies from DR. Glad I'm leaving.

[C Chime]

Hugh,

In response to your second to last post regarding shift times, Victors' shift times are there to reflect the operation, ie; the overlap was created to accomodate the BMED operation.

However, once BMED have gone, the overlap serves quite nicely in covering a generally busy section of the day, covering dinner breaks, and (excluding BMED) can be put to good use clearing ADD's, especially, for example, when we get the 767's back next month.

The 'standard' 6.30 or 6.45 start time you refer to reflects continuous working areas such as Tech 1, working 2 days/2 nights.

I believe the Company is seriously under estimating the numbers of engineers wishing to work a 4x4 pattern, especially a days only pattern. I also believe, that given the opportunity (and having worked 7's for many years myself) an awful lot of chaps currently on 7's would take the opportunity to move to a 4x4 days (early/late) pattern.

The question is: Do our management have the foresight, or indeed, the business acumen to offer this shift pattern as an option in T5.

Answer: Probably not! We are again witnessing decisions being made by a minority for the majority who have to suffer the outcome of those decisions.

It is about time the Company (our management) dug into the archives and read the results of previous staff surveys, in which large numbers of staff from all areas in the airline wanted a greater input into the business. It seems that once again our management have donned their blinkers and are wilfully making life-changing decisions that do not affect themselves, but only the workforce.

If our management read these threads (we know you do!), please take everything onboard, please negotiate with us directly before you have secret talks with the TU. We are the people directly affected, we should have a right to voice our opinion directly to you, and more importantly, the choice should be ours.

There are two options for the final outcome:

1/ A happy and relatively content workforce in T5.

2/ A very disgruntled and disillusioned workforce in T5.

I know what I would want as an employer!!!

Finally (I have waffled on for far too long now), the developing thrust of this thread is why I setup the thread entitled 'T5 shift patterns'. Keep it going on either thread and spread the word.

That's enough for the time being.........i'm tired!

[Obi-wan Kenobi]

We've been told that the BMED engineering is staying.

[dbsweeney]

Originally Posted by Dick Tracy

DBS

Nothing wrong with local agreements if all the guys locally like doing the pattern

Er, my point exactly Dick.

Originally Posted by Mr Grumpy

Again the ones changing shifts the most can't even keep their start time because others that aren't changing shift object.

The past (also the present and probably the future) is littered with examples of "locally agreed" patterns. Some were completely, outrageously *not* locally agreed, like the LGW 7 day pattern which had been overwhelmingly rejected by the "locals". Somebody called Reamer then abused his position and signed up LGW to it at the request of his good friend and business partner, Alan McDonut.

Others were just carried through by the simple expedient of ignoring the ballot and reballoting until people just gave up and didn't bother to vote, at which point the ayes would just tip the balance and another "locally agreed" pattern would be introduced to stuff up your life. The second type of local agreement was quite prevalent when Freddy "Kruger" Wetpants was in charge, as he would normally threaten wholesale job losses and public executions if the union did not give him the shift pattern he wanted.

Originally Posted by Obi Wan Kenobi

We've been told that the BMED engineering is staying.

Presumably by the same people who have been absolutely straight and truthful with us over every thing else? I can't see it myself, unless either it is an interim arrangement until BMI get up to speed, or there is a renegotiated contract which does the work for nothing. Bishop doesn't like BA and I can't see him giving them any work unless he absolutely has to or there is a compelling business case.